No subject
Thu Dec 25 21:32:58 EST 2014
ctive of the user this will be great improvements=0A=
in the access time to the information.=0A=
=0A=
" =0A=
=0A=
" =0A=
Overall I miss the great picture on what is going on. There is no meta=
=0A=
document that discribes the difference between cursor and reading focus=
=0A=
movement and=0A=
this crucial difference is also not reflected in the terminology of the=
=0A=
config files.=0A=
=0A=
" =0A=
But it's implicitly understood by blind users. =0A=
" Mh. My brother may not have this inbuild implicit insight you attest all=
=0A=
blind users. :-)=0A=
Without my help he had never mastered the focus 14 brltty keybindings.=
=0A=
He is very intelligent - has an absolute memory -- he never forget anythin=
g =0A=
- and learns at a speed of light.=0A=
But without knowing the names of the buttons all the documentation of the =
=0A=
keybindings is useless.=0A=
It was not possible even for his genius to fiddle it out by try and fail. =
" =0A=
" =0A=
You may find a graphical documentation of the BRLTTY Key-Bindings to the=
=0A=
physical keys on the FS Focus 14 here:=0A=
=0A=
<a href=3D'https://inqbus-hosting.de/volker/focus_14_doku.odg/at_download/=
file'>https://inqbus-hosting.de/volker/focus_14_doku.odg/at_download/file<=
/a>=0A=
=0A=
" =0A=
Including this sort of thing for just one model wouldn't, in and of itself=
, be =0A=
all that useful. It might be extremely useful, however, were we to have su=
ch a =0A=
picture for each and every model (or, for at least most of them). I'm =
=0A=
wondering, therefore, if you might have the time to put together just such=
a =0A=
collection.=0A=
" I would be honored to craft this graphical documentation for the =0A=
community.=0A=
Since I do not have physical access to all the many braille device brltty =
=0A=
support, I will need some help from the community.=0A=
=0A=
Here is my plan:=0A=
=0A=
1) I will get me an overview of the different devices and their key naming=
=0A=
schemes.=0A=
2) These I will compare with the brltty keynames in the documentation and =
=0A=
look for differences.=0A=
3) The differences I then will publish for the community to give me hints =
to=0A=
correct or complete.=0A=
4) I will produce documentation of the devices and name all the buttons, =
=0A=
levers, rockers according to the brltty notation. I will produce these =
=0A=
graphics =0A=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 in a way that visual impaired people like my mother (10=
% sight) can read=0A=
it at their reading device easily.=0A=
5) A judge will review the documentation and will report to the community.=
=0A=
6) The reviewed documentation will then be published=0A=
=0A=
For all this we need =0A=
* a judge=0A=
* a medium for collaboration. What medium do blind use to work effectively=
=0A=
together on a single document?=0A=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 We non blind use etherpad for this task but this is usi=
ng javascript and=0A=
does not works with console browsers like links2.=0A=
=0A=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 What do you recommend?=0A=
=0A=
" =0A=
It also highlights an interesting "problem". I myself - and, in fact, most=
of =0A=
us - am unable to even check it out in order to aprove it for web site =
=0A=
inclusion. You see, most of us (myself included) are fully blind.=0A=
" Recently I have asked Klaus/Adriane Knopper for assistance. I think they=
=0A=
may be a good judge for the quality of my work. =0A=
" =0A=
=0A=
" =0A=
Tell me how to contribute more ..=0A=
=0A=
" =0A=
We'd welcome whatever you may be able to contribute. As mentioned above, =
=0A=
perhaps you could put together a collection of braille device pictures for=
us =0A=
that would assist sighted users.=0A=
=0A=
On the issue of key layouts: Some of our key tables already do contain ver=
bal =0A=
descriptions of them. Check out the *.ktb and *.kti files within the =
=0A=
Tables/Input/*/ subdirectories of the source tree for lines which begin wi=
th =0A=
the keyword "note". After installation, these files end up in the /etc/brl=
tty/ =0A=
directory. Since verbal descriptions are useful to both blind and sighted =
=0A=
users, completing these descriptions is something that definitely must be =
done.=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
" I have checked them out. One Idea my wife has was to give every key =
=0A=
binding some optional tags. =0A=
Together with sorting and tagging the list of keybindings can be structure=
d =0A=
easily and very personally.=0A=
=0A=
Best Regards=0A=
=0A=
Dr Volker Jaenisch=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
-- =0A=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A=
inqbus it-consulting Dr. Volker Jaenisch=0A=
Richard-Strau=C3=9F-Str. 1 +49(08861) 690 474 0=0A=
86956 Schongau-West <a href=3D'http://www.inqbus.de'>http://www=
.inqbus.de</a>=0A=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
_______________________________________________=0A=
This message was sent via the BRLTTY mailing list.=0A=
To post a message, send an e-mail to: BRLTTY at mielke.cc=0A=
For general information, go to: http://mielke.cc/mailman/listinfo/brltty"=
--=_768c09353c1d43d4181e11ce=9d00de43-1be5-57ad-963f-8f1a1df13e36_=
Content-Type: text/html;
charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<html><body>I would like to point out, that one of my greatest complaints =
on sites that serve the blind is the frequency with which text size cannot=
be resized without horizontal scrolling. This vital accessibility f=
eature is of course untestible for the blind, as they cannot see to see if=
their site is usable to the merely visually impaired.<br><br>It is also s=
ad to me, that so few people know how to change the text size in their web=
browsers. I remember when I was visiting an older uncle of mine, he=
wanted to show me an article on his computer. I sat down at the web=
browser to read the article, and of course I pressed Ctrl-+ a couple of t=
imes to get the font to a reasonable size. My uncle immediately grab=
bed my shoulder and shouted "how did you do that!?" It took a few mo=
ments for me to even realize what he meant. It never occurred to me =
that a person wouldn't know about the zoom feature.<br><br>I think that th=
e plus minus buttons should be in the tool-bars of all web browsers by def=
ault. After all, a majority of people who are older than 50 need/wan=
t the feature and yet most of them never find out it exists.<br><br>Tim<br=
><br><p>---------- P=C5=AFvodn=C3=AD zpr=C3=A1va ----------<br>Od: Dr. Vol=
ker Jaenisch <volker.jaenisch at inqbus.de><br>Komu: brltty at mielke.cc, =
info at knopper.net<br>Datum: 29. 12. 2014 0:56:02<br>P=C5=99edm=C4=9Bt: Re: =
[BRLTTY] Let's improve documentation for the non blind</p><br><blockquote>=
<div style=3D"color: #000000; background-color: #FFFFFF">=0A=
Hi Community!<br>=0A=
<br>=0A=
<div>On 26.12.2014 05:40, Dave Mielke wrote:<br>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<blockquote>=0A=
<pre>The other side of this issue, though, is that adding =0A=
that kind of extra verbage all over the place would be nothing but confusi=
ng =0A=
clutter to a blind user who already understands the context. </pre>=0A=
</blockquote>=0A=
Why can the blind people be confused by some structured information=0A=
they cannot read at all?<br>=0A=
As I stated in the subject the information base I like to bring up=0A=
is for the non blind AND the <br>=0A=
visual impaired people AND the people that may assist the former=0A=
noticed people BUT NOT the blind.<br>=0A=
<blockquote>=0A=
<pre>So, in the end, =0A=
especially in this area, the blind dudes tend to win out. </pre>=0A=
</blockquote>=0A=
Yep. The - I call them - priviledged - blind dudes. Yeah they win.<br>=
=0A=
But there are others - not so priviledged - blind and visual=0A=
impaired people out there. Maybe lots of.<br>=0A=
And you never ever may hear of them since they are not capable to=0A=
even use brltty to communicate with you.<br>=0A=
My Brother for instance. And he comes from a rich and educated=0A=
country born as a son of a professor.<br>=0A=
He is lost. Not because of his capabilities. He has perfect memory -=0A=
he knows exactly what happened at 12.14.1980 and he learns as=0A=
quickly as hell.<br>=0A=
Why he is lost has lots of reasons that are not brltty allone. But=0A=
brltty can help him - because it is all he has. <br>=0A=
He has no jaws, no windows, only brltty. And he is stuck. -- and who=0A=
is helping him?<br>=0A=
<br>=0A=
Me. And I am not blind. And I have to come clear with brltty. And=0A=
out there is legion of People not even understanding brltty. But=0A=
they never communicate <br>=0A=
with you becouse the are not able to communicate with you at all. <br>=
=0A=
I think our mission is to reach as most people we can - or? <br>=0A=
<blockquote>=0A=
<pre>Now, perhaps, you =0A=
have an additional bit of empathy for how blind users feel when they encou=
nter =0A=
all those graphically oriented web sites which are almost impossible for t=
hem =0A=
to use.=0A=
=0A=
As an aside: You bear the title Doctor, so, just perhaps, you've written a=
book =0A=
or two. If not, you surely have colleagues who have. Have you ensured that=
=0A=
those books have adequate and easy-to-understadn wording associated with e=
ach =0A=
picture so that a blind reader can make sense of it?</pre>=0A=
</blockquote>=0A=
Rougly you state: "The non blind people do things that we blind=0A=
cannot read so why should we blind people produce <br>=0A=
things for the non blind?" Sorry, but this argumentation sounds a=0A=
bit revanchist to me.<br>=0A=
Should we hearing people stop producing music since there are some=0A=
deaf people on earth? Should deaf people no longer produce sounds=0A=
for us hearing people?<br>=0A=
I am sure you find out that your argument is ridiculous.<br>=0A=
<blockquote>=0A=
<pre>I dig into the config of brltty and it all is clear and straight - if=
=0A=
someone knows where the keys "LeftGdf" or "LeftWheelUp"=0A=
are located on the physical device.=0A=
</pre>=0A=
<blockquote>=0A=
<pre>LeftWheelUp should be easy enough to understand. There's a vertically=
oriented =0A=
wheel at the left end of the top of the device. LeftWheelUp means rolling =
that =0A=
wheel in the upward direction, i.e. toward the back of the device. I don't=
=0A=
recall this ever having been a point of confusion in the past.</pre>=0A=
</blockquote>=0A=
</blockquote>=0A=
<b>There is no wheel at this device at all</b>. There are two=0A=
rockers (Up/down) together with a pushbutton (Press) left and right=0A=
at the top that have take over the function of the former wheel of=0A=
older versions.<br>=0A=
<blockquote>=0A=
<pre>LeftGDF is a different matter. Yes, it'd be hard to guess which key t=
his one =0A=
is. I expect, though, that the documentation for the actual device does ex=
plain =0A=
it. For the most part, we name the keys the same way the manufacturers hav=
e.</pre>=0A=
</blockquote>=0A=
It is completely ok to have a code internal naming convention which=0A=
do not accurately reflect changes in the design of the external=0A=
world - as long as the user documentation is according to the=0A=
user/producer naming of the buttons on the device. In case of the=0A=
Focus 14 blue this is not true. The user documentation is=0A=
misleading. =0A=
<blockquote>=0A=
<blockquote>=0A=
<pre>Also the documentation of the individual key bindings descriptions ar=
e=0A=
misleading:=0A=
=0A=
go up one line: LeftWheelUp=0A=
=0A=
If I read "go up one line" I imagine the cursor to go up. But in this=
=0A=
case only the reading focus goes up one line but not the cursor.=0A=
</pre>=0A=
</blockquote>=0A=
<pre>Yes, that'd be a sighted person's perspective, but it's not a blind p=
erson's =0A=
perspective. Since these descriptions are meant for quick reference by a b=
lind =0A=
person, it's their perspective which must be targeted.=0A=
=0A=
You, as a sighted person, see the whole screen, so, in a single glance, yo=
u =0A=
kind of know everything it says, where everything is, etc. So, where the c=
ursor =0A=
is, which area has special highlighting, etc, is the most important thing =
you =0A=
want to be told about, so it's those areas that you tend to think about wh=
en =0A=
movement is discussed.</pre>=0A=
</blockquote>=0A=
The different perception of the world does not change the need for a=0A=
clear terminology, <br>=0A=
well structured documentation and fast access to the things one=0A=
search. <br>=0A=
If you do not agree on this fact we should end our discussion.<br>=0A=
<br>=0A=
To the terminology:<br>=0A=
<pre>You write:=0A=
go left one window=0A=
=0A=
and :=0A=
go to end of line=0A=
=0A=
The first operation moves the window one instance to the left.=0A=
The later moves the window to the end of the line, but no "window" is ment=
ioned. Why not mention the "window"at the later?=0A=
=0A=
To the structure and the access:=0A=
The list of operations is not structured nor even sorted.=0A=
=0A=
Even the same operations that are represented by more than one key-code ha=
ve definition listed 50 lines appart. E.g. =0A=
=0A=
go up one line: LeftWheelUp=0A=
...=0A=
50 lines=0A=
...=0A=
go up one line: RightRockerUp=0A=
=0A=
A simple sort operation before putting out this lines would improve the re=
adability a lot. =0A=
And I am pretty sure that also the blind people will be happy about this.=
=0A=
=0A=
Additional I would like to see some structure:=0A=
* Cursor Movement=0A=
* Window Movement=0A=
* Searching=0A=
* Setting Attributes=0A=
etc.=0A=
=0A=
More information about the BRLTTY
mailing list